Why kids don't like learning outside

[Juliet Robertson]

Hello Everyone

I just discovered an interesting post on the Times Education Supplement (TES) outdoor learning forum that wasn't getting many answers. I'd really like to know your thoughts as this is an interesting point.

"Can anyone tell me if outdoor learning benefits all children. I would like to to know if there some children that do not benefit, why is this? does anyone have any theory which might help me relate to this?

It isn't the title of an essay. I am doing some research on outdoor learning and how it supports childrens educational development. I have spoken to teachers in schools and some have confirmed it does and that some children do not always benefit from outdoor learning."

Many thanks and best wishes
Juliet

[Sal]

How about limiting TV or video game activities? I take my daughter to the park, on walks, on bike rides, to the golf course, fishing, in the woods etc. I also let her decorate cookies I bake with her. Anything to keep the TV off. If my wife and I show an interest in something, my daughter still seems to want to participate. Even if we are having a crazy day and have to hit a drive through for nasty food, we park under a tree and look for squirrels or birds and call it a picnic.

You can't just dump a kid outside and say go do nature. Share it with them. Kids like what is fun and not like learning but like fun - I do too. If someone says we are going to go out and study ornithological categorization and concentrations I imagine kids will shudder. If you tell them they are going to solve the mystery of the lost birds they may be more interested. If the kids get to go outside and they can identify with it because they have an adult in their family life who shares the interest, that may make it even better. Granted not all kids are fortunate to have parents who have the time to share in their lives like that - both parents working multiple jobs etc.

[Peter Kyburz]

In my experience, especially youths (who are very often plugged into several media-sources at the same time; e.g. mp3-player-headset in their ears, writing sms while reading the newspaper...) are downright scared if you take them to the woods: it's awfully quiet! nothing but birds singing and the wind playing with leaves... no action at all!

if we want them to benefit from contact with nature we will have to have a lot of patience...

[Ken Finch]

Hi Juliet ―

I haven’t seen any hard research on this, but it’s well established that there are several distinct learning styles that are variously effective with different people. So it seems logical that the typically interactive, hands-on methodology of outdoor education would not work equally well with all kids.

However, I think the multiple dimensions of outdoor ed bring a wide variety of benefits that perhaps not all teachers would routinely consider ― including process learning like observation, data collection and analysis, testing hypotheses, deduction, etc. In addition, outdoor learning usually offers students physical exercise, group interaction experiences, and exceptional opportunities for artistic and creative reflection. Plus, from my perspective as a conservationist, perhaps its greatest value is that outdoor learning gives kids the chance to begin building (or extending) a personal bond with the natural world. Sadly, many of these benefits are dramatically under-valued by U.S. public education. Hopefully it’s better in the U.K….

Best wishes in your work!
Ken Finch

[Eric Gyllenhaal]

Hi, Juliet (and TES friend),

In my experience, some kids are just afraid of nature, at least at first. About a decade ago there were some papers about how fear and disgust may limit children's enjoyment of the outdoors:
Bixler, R. D., & Floyd, M. F. (1997). Nature is scary, disgusting, and uncomfortable. Environment and Behavior, 29(4), 443-467.
Bixler, R. D., & Floyd, M. F. (1999). Hands on or hands off? Disgust sensitivity and preference for environmental education activities. Journal of Environmental Education, 30(3), 4-11.
With time and experience, many kids can overcome at least some of this, but one of my sons is still afraid to touch most bugs.

There has also been some work looking specifically at urban kids' comfort level with various aspects of nature, for instance:
Simmons, D. A. (1994). Urban children's preferences for nature: Lessons from environmental education. Children's Environments Quarterly, 11(3), 194-203.
Simmons, D. A. (1994). A comparison of urban children's and adults' preferences and comfort levels for natural areas. International Journal of Environmental Education and Information, 13(4), 399-414.
Kong, L. (2000). Nature's danger, nature's pleasures: Urban children and the natural world. In S. L. Holloway & G. Valentine (Eds.), Children's geographies: Playing, living, learning (pp. 257-271). London: Routledge.

You might also look through the more current research collected by C&NN (since my citations are getting a bit out of date): http://www.childrenandnature.org/research/

And nothing is ever simple in educational research. There has been some recent work challenging the idea of learning styles: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-12/afps-lsd121609.php

Enjoy the holidays!
Eric

[Juliet Robertson]

Hello Everyone

Thank you so much for your thoughtful contributions to this post.

Sal - you are so right, the involvement of an interested adult can make such a difference as does the need to engage a child. Recently I struggled with this concept. I had a contract to create activities around the stonework in a local church. I roped in my own son, who thought this was a tall order. Eventually I came up with the idea of "The Stone Detectives of St Machar's" and a search and match type of challenge - phew!

I think Peter's point about children multi-tasking and using portable mobile technology is an interesting one. I suspect this is the shape of things to come...I'm not in a position to criticise here! I take an iPhone with me on most walks. My husband found GPS invaluable when he worked in a mountain rescue team. Perhaps the trick here is to use technology as the hook. I kind of like the idea of a "text hunt" where children have to complete a challenge and receive their clues via texts!

And about learning styles...what a compost full of worms! I think common sense applies here...in a class of children there are children with different interests, needs and ways of learning in a given moment with a given concept. What the outdoors does provide is a multi-sensory experience that is hard to replicate indoors. Children themselves talk about the freedom and space associated with being outside. As Ken says, the other opportunity is to begin building connections with the natural world. Without this, children may fail to fully grasp the consequences of their actions especially with regard to the need for pro-environmental behaviours.

Ken, the situation in the UK is interesting. Our English, Welsh and Scottish education systems value outdoor learning in that we have national policies. If you look in the Scotland's Nature Network I've posted the relevant national links in a discussion post. But in terms of what happening on the front line...well I don't think the rhetoric is reality yet. In 2006 a study by Mannion et al looked at the quantity of outdoor learning undertaken in May and June when the weather is at its best in Scotland. Well it turns out that the average amount of time spent outside was 12 mins per week in high school and 19 mins per week in elementary schools. Ouch! Here's the link to the research

Eric - thanks for the research references. I'm about to follow these up. Interestingly I also posed this question on an outdoor education research forum so it'll be interesting to see if your references cross match the suggestions of these folks!

As for me, I think the question is interesting. In terms of health benefits, there is a lot of research that cites the benefits of being outside and in contact with nature. For example, increased physical activity. There is some super research from Grahn et al (1997) and Fjørtoft and Sageie (2001) which looked at pre-school children. Here's a link to the references. However whether ALL children benefit is harder to justify and do children have to like being outside to benefit? Hmm. I'm sure that there are always going to be exceptions to the rule. Certainly there is a period of acclimatisation for children who are not used to being outside....after all to quote one six year old child I taught 2 years ago "Good families don't go outside." He came from a rougher part of Aberdeen and lived in a high rise block. So there's a mindset that requires a little change too.

Thanks again for your contributions. Anyone reading this thread, please do post your thoughts - personal, academic, intuitive, it doesn't matter.

Best wishes
Juliet

[Sal]

I noticed that my daughter was afraid a bit, and also, "fashion conscious" if you will. I took her to the huntin store and got her the same ugly green boots as me. We matched. Then we each carried a recycled Oxyclean bucket - we matched again. Then, she and I both fish "Ugly Stik" fishing rods...another match. Frog nets too. One day she slipped and fell into about 3 inches of water while we were chasing minnows. Well, I bit the bullet and fell in with her. We matched. We still laugh about that.

For the nature club she started - yep it was her idea to have one, she decides what we are going to do within limits - I will pick the park then she sets the agenda. I noted that we have better success when we name our adventure locations - we have an enchanted bamboo forest we go through, then the "Dark Haunted Woods" and also the Faerie Trail. We also have a skywalk that is really a cross over a busy street but it is up in the trees so we named that - we create a BRAND identity for our adventures.

Somewhere I read that you should let kids define the activities as much as possible - when I decied to go to a park, it really does not matter if we go walking in the stream, or the rocks, or on a trail - so she gets to pick. Sometimes I give her two choices of like - should we go fishing in the state park, or frog hunting at the bypass pond? Staying inside is not an option.

I do love to fish. And she will come with me - she learned how to cast and spin fish just by watching me - she will not accept a kids rod either - it has to be like mine. She is 6 and uses my equipment - and does fine. Having her chose, match me, and be the leader - she made a rule - whoever has the walking stick gets to go first - she gets to make the adventures. We take a log of digital snapshots too. So far it works.

[joanne louise smith]

fantastic discussion :)
in m experience of young folk - very few dislike being outdoors
of those who express a dislike
i'd guess most are experiencing difficulties with friendships
or are afraid of dirtying their clothes

[Sal]

That's why I fell in after she did - she was afraid of getting in trouble - this way we both got in "trouble" with mom.

One of the parks near me busses in City kids who don't get too much nature. Or the school busses them to the park - anyway - my daughter and I were fishing. By the time we were done, at least five other little girls were using her fishing rod and getting to hold the artificial plastic baits we use - first they thought the stuff was yucky - then they all wanted one. I am a pretty easy going fisherman, but I did not have enough for all the kids so when we were done they had to give the stuff back. My daughter was telling them to hold the stuff. She was telling them about Bass and sunfish etc.

I already see peer pressure impacting her at 6! She wants to be sure she looks "right". This could make things trickier as we progress on our nature endeavors but for now, she wants to keep at it. She invites others to join her club. We will eventually take a bunch on a "discovery walk" around the neighborhood - flowers, weeds, trees, bugs...what are they, where do they come from?

We will see how it goes with a bunch of kids.

[Ken Finch]

Just a little further thought, Juliet, that echoes Eric's earlier post. As our culture has become more urban and indoor-oriented, it has inevitably led many children to miss the opportunity to become comfortable with nature. Ultimately, the only way to do this is to get them outside, repeatedly! The great fear, of course, is that a generation of nature-fearing kids will grow into parents who are even less likely to nudge their own children outdoors. But I strongly believe that nearly all kids do have that biophilic bond to nature; it just needs ample opportunities to be activated. Years ago (more than I care to recall!) I worked with a residential EE program that brought students from the Washington D.C. public schools to week-long camp sessions on the Chesapeake Bay. I would bet that at least half of those kids had never before been out of an urban area, and it showed! For the first couple of days many of them were clearly uncomfortable or even outright scared, leading to all manner of difficult, acting-out behavior. But week-after-week we saw them gradually acclimate to the outdoors, and almost always start having a blast. To this day I take comfort from that observation -- the love of nature is there in kids, but initially it needs to be nurtured along carefully, over a period of time. The opportunity to do just that is the beauty of residential or other long-term EE programs (e.g., nature preschools), and unfortunately is a huge limitation of shorter, infrequent day-use nature experiences.

[joanne louise smith]

shocked once again - beautiful snowy weather here just now, when i was a child we all played out i the snow until our fingers were red raw, we were too tired to pull the sledge back up a hill and we were hungry so went home. I've bee out walking drinking in the beauty and shall be takig m sledge out i the next few days. i have see a smattering of lucky children playing in the snow, i've see one snowman ... i live in a big villiage - where are the children?

[Sal]

We were out sledding the last few days here - My daughter did not want to come in from the snow - she was positively frozen too. She loves the outside and I think it is because we love it too.

Getting back to learning outside - I figure it is hard for a kid to look cool outside. It is also tough for a bully to be a bully outside in unfamiliar surroundings. All it takes is a few of the "cool" kids to bad mouth something and it makes it hard for the other kids to want to participate. The peer pressure I see on my daughter is nuts. Her friends with older sisters are the source of the pressure. The little sister wants to be like the big sister so one day what was a fun activity is now off limits because big sis says it is a baby activity. The kids would rather sit and play nintendo or WII or text each other or be belittled by the older kids.

[Juliet Robertson]

Hi Everyone

Thanks again for all your fabby comments. Joanne - I sometimes wonder whether the myths about snowballs being banned have just added to the fear of having fun in the snow. I don't know whether you've seen the Health and Safety Executive "Myth of the Month" series - well worth a look.

We're lucky up here in Inverurie - it's a play where kids do play out all year round. Perhaps not as much as in the past. The best hill for sledging is by the old pig farm where the additional excitement is the risk of sledging into the River Don.

Have you seen the Persil advert? It's a shame it's Persil and not Ecover! The YouTube clip is quite moving as it's about a robot becoming a child as he makes contact with nature and splashes in puddles.

Sal - the stories you are telling of your time outside with your daughter are brilliant. Do you ever meet other families who are out there with their children? I'm a big fan of worms and discovered that our wormery in one school was a good opportunity to engage with local fishing folk. I've blogged a couple of times about worms.

Ken, your point about repeated experiences is really important. Interestingly this is something that is beginning to be recognised. Here in the UK, our outdoor learning strategies advocate the need for frequent, regular outdoor learning experiences. Our Forest School programmes are created around weekly visits to local woods. Our nature kindergartens are outside all year round at least 80% of the time. The Secret Garden Outdoor Nursery is particularly interesting because the children choose collectively where they are going to play each day.

Thanks again for all your thoughts.