Why kids don't like learning outside

[Juliet Robertson]

Hello Everyone

I just discovered an interesting post on the Times Education Supplement (TES) outdoor learning forum that wasn't getting many answers. I'd really like to know your thoughts as this is an interesting point.

"Can anyone tell me if outdoor learning benefits all children. I would like to to know if there some children that do not benefit, why is this? does anyone have any theory which might help me relate to this?

It isn't the title of an essay. I am doing some research on outdoor learning and how it supports childrens educational development. I have spoken to teachers in schools and some have confirmed it does and that some children do not always benefit from outdoor learning."

Many thanks and best wishes
Juliet

[Ken Finch]

Juliet, the Persil ad on youtube is wonderful! Thanks for sharing!


Juliet Robertson said:

Hi Everyone

Thanks again for all your fabby comments. Joanne - I sometimes wonder whether the myths about snowballs being banned have just added to the fear of having fun in the snow. I don't know whether you've seen the Health and Safety Executive "Myth of the Month" series - well worth a look.

We're lucky up here in Inverurie - it's a play where kids do play out all year round. Perhaps not as much as in the past. The best hill for sledging is by the old pig farm where the additional excitement is the risk of sledging into the River Don.

Have you seen the Persil advert? It's a shame it's Persil and not Ecover! The YouTube clip is quite moving as it's about a robot becoming a child as he makes contact with nature and splashes in puddles.

Sal - the stories you are telling of your time outside with your daughter are brilliant. Do you ever meet other families who are out there with their children? I'm a big fan of worms and discovered that our wormery in one school was a good opportunity to engage with local fishing folk. I've blogged a couple of times about worms.

Ken, your point about repeated experiences is really important. Interestingly this is something that is beginning to be recognised. Here in the UK, our outdoor learning strategies advocate the need for frequent, regular outdoor learning experiences. Our Forest School programmes are created around weekly visits to local woods. Our nature kindergartens are outside all year round at least 80% of the time. The Secret Garden Outdoor Nursery is particularly interesting because the children choose collectively where they are going to play each day.

Thanks again for all your thoughts.

[joanne louise smith]

Snow play - i was in an infant school in Dewsbury last year, snowy day. We had a giant sowball fight - most children joined in the dedicated pacifists amongst us lay down in the snow - this worked well. I worked there as a supply teacher - and broke the ice with all who participated :D

[Sal]

We meet all kinds of folks on our nature walks - one notable trip we met a set of grandparents who were minding their grandson while his parents were away. The Grandfather knew all about the local plants and weeds. He told us about stinging nettles and the water plants we can see growing in the streams. This only got my daugther hooked more.

As Christmas is winding down here I wanted to share a wish for a happy holiday and new year to all. My daughter invited Santa to join her nature club in her thank you letter to him last night. She also invited her teacher with a note at the school's winter break party. I had no idea she was doing this but she wrote her teacher's note all by herself. I found it in her "mail" folder from school. Her teacher accepted her invitation to be a member of the club. Now we have to make her a membership certificate and give her the package of materials.

Sometimes the students are the educators - at least in my house with my daughter to me - she taught me about her love for nature and how serious she is in pursuing her club - at least for now. We have been at this since August so we'll see where it takes us.

Maybe, in order to find out why kids "hate" learning about the outside and nature the teachers should just ask? And then, they could ask the same group for suggestions about how to make nature learning fun.

At dad day two years at her school I showed the kids how to make cookies. They had fun, but did not like waiting for the cookies to be done. I asked them why they were bored and they said they wanted to know what the cookies tasted like BEFORE they were done! Well, last year, I had a completed batch hidden away and as we reached the crescendo of boredom I released the cookies on them. Ouila! A fun time was had by all. It is certainly more complex than this, but I bet kids will be happy to tell you how to make something better. Pick the best three ideas and do them,

[Sal]

We have a magazine in the US called "MAKE" and they have a Make for Kids section in it. This month they go outside and make stick lashings - focusing on the tripod structure. Perhaps this is yet another way to get kids outside - give them a goal to make something like a few tripods and a low platform...clearly for the older kids but the sticks can be free - the twine is the expense. They cite a website: www.tinkeringschool.com.

In another article a teacher mentioned designing a Trebuchet in class then taking it outside to build. Finally - plastic bag ice cream - salt and ice in a smaller sealed plastic baggie, cream and suger etc in a larger sealed bag. Small bag in the big bag, throw it back and forth until you get ice cream. The teacher who had the idea used the older kids to go to a younger kid class to make the treat together outside - clearly not a NATURE event - but you could have the event at a park and make this the treat for the end of a Park clean up day perhaps?

[Roger Greenaway]

Having been alerted to this thread on the outdoor research list I hope I can add something to this very rich thread on such a core issue.

I wonder what extra light might be thrown on the original question by changing a word or two?

For example: Can anyone tell me if INDOOR LEARNING benefits all children. I would like to know if there are some children that do not benefit, why is this?

Would we ever give up on trying to make INDOOR LEARNING work?

For example: Can anyone tell me if READING benefits all children. I would like to know if there are some children that do not benefit, why is this?

For READING I think we would also keep trying every which way until successful. Why not for outdoor learning too? In both cases the rewards of success make it worthwhile to keep trying every which way. Why? Explore the reason(s) for a person's resistance to outdoor learning and that is quite probably a barrier that is blocking their learning and development in many other ways too. (And it may well be easier to tackle this barrier successfully in an outdoor learning setting - especially if the new surroundings, the smaller group size and higher staff-student ratio allows a more individualised approach). Although you could use this argument for adding ANYTHING to the curriculum, the scope and variety of outdoor learning is (or should be) so vast that there should be something for everyone.

And the actual question: Can anyone tell me if OUTDOOR LEARNING benefits all children. I would like to know if there are some children that do not benefit, why is this?

From a learning perspective, there is clearly a case for searching for a better learning environment wherever there are students with learning difficulties. I once heard a talk/performace by Prof Ged Lombard who spoke about the value of changing the learning environment from a classroom to a workshop or a studio or a laboratory - which are all places for doing things - for active learning. Which is partly why I don't like the phrase 'outdoor classroom' and prefer 'learning outside the classroom' - which is a whole lot of learning and life skills that cannot be readily learned in the classroom (nor even in the workshop, studio and laboratory).

Once outdoors we could create an enormous outdoor curriculum if we really wanted to, but I much prefer what I understand to be the Forest Schools approach (for all ages) - where participants generate their own activity.

Roger

[Juliet Robertson]

Hello Everyone

Thanks again for such interesting contributions. Sal - I really like the ice-cream making activity - fantastic! It links surprisingly neatly to Roger's contribution in that outdoor learning has a unique place-based contribution to make to learning that (again) is harder to replicate or find indoors. Pete Higgins, a outdoor education professor based at Edinburgh University has frequently alluded to outdoor learning being a combination of people, place and activity - the relationships within and between these components being core to what outdoor learning encompasses. So back to making ice-cream outside....it was certainly a different approach compared to an ice-cream maker being used in a kitchen. Nature-based - no. Kid-friendly - yes and the space and the freedom of the outdoors (something which children deem a benefit of being outside - according to some 200 Primary 6 children in Aberdeen in a study I have done) to run about and catch and toss the ice cream means that the children are more physically active...which surely is a plus aside from the fun factor.

Roger , your adjustment of the questions is interesting...especially as many children do not seem to like being taught indoors - whether this is the people, place or activity that is most disliked, I'm not sure. My son tells me it's the activities he does at school that he most dislikes! He goes to his local high school which is well-regarded. Hmm...why indoors? Why offer the curriculum in the way that we do? Big questions! Forest school is an interesting concept yet as it is currently delivered, children tend only to have weekly access for a term or year at the most. I have yet to find evidence that such a short term approach has long term or permanent benefits. Ouch! The research from outdoor nurseries in other countries where children are outside all-year round 80% time does suggest clear benefits though....thus perhaps Forest School is simply a step in the right direction...a bit like a week-long residential outdoor education experience. But the before and after work around both needs considerable thought and attention.

Gosh that's all been quite serious. On a lighter note, has anyone tried humming to snails or slugs to see if they will stretch their antennae and move if you get the right pitch?

Thanks again, everyone
Juliet

[Peter Kyburz]

Juliet Robertson said:

...has anyone tried humming to snails or slugs to see if they will stretch their antennae and move if you get the right pitch?

No, I haven't tried this - but I certainly will as soon as the snails are awake again... ;-)
A friend of mine says that if you're humming to mayflies, they will change altitude depending on the frequency...

I like Roger's contribution very much! I think quite a few people would readily use the fact that some children might not benefit at once from outdoor learning as an excuse to not go outside at all - when the real issue is that they themselves are not comfortable outside...

Greetings from (for a change) wintery Zurich

Peter